Saturday, November 29, 2008

-1, and 0 frame links?

Recently there has been a lot of attention and hype towards this Akuma video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53rxCyyeQ8

The reason for all the excitement is due to the buff combo that the Akuma player pulls off in the beginning of the match. The combo is: c.mp, s.hk, s.lp, s.hk, c.mk. The Akuma player also threw a hadoken after the c.mk, however it didn't connect. All in all, the reason for so much excitement has to do with the amazing linking and execution that Akuma has entitled to himself. I mean, look at it, he links 5 normals, 2 being heavy hitting moves (the hk's).

So I took it upon myself to look into this combo a little bit more deeply. I do this with a lot of combos that seem new in the game...calculate the stun and damage the combo does, see how much variation it has, what advantages it gives after the combo, etc. However while trying to "break" this combo, something seemed very odd. It had to do with the amount of frame advantage and startup that these moves have...simply put this combo shouldn't even work.

This is gonna get pretty analytical here with frames and all, but I promise it makes a good point. Akuma's c.mp gives +5 advantage on hit. Akuma's s.hk startup is 7. You following me here? This would be considered a -2 link. In otherwords, the advantage DOES NOT give enough time for the next move to startup...it shouldn't be possible! I then went further with the analyzation. The s.hk move gives +5 and s.lp starts up at 4, meaning this would be a "1 frame" link.

Now in MOST other fighting games (I don't know a fighting game where the idea is NOT like this), a "1 frame" link is actually a VERY difficult link. It literally means that you have 1 frame to link your move. This means NO errors allowed...compare this to a 4 frame link, you have 4 frames to link your move, meaning you get 4x the chances to link. For those that played Cvs2, think this as a Sagat c.lk, c.mk link (a possible link, however pretty tough to do ALL the time). Compare this to his s.lp, s.lp (a 4 frame link), chances are, you'll hit the 4 frame link much more then you would a 1 frame link. Akuma's c.lp, c.lp is a "2 frame" link, which is also the same as Sagat's c.lk, c.lk. The reason why I bring this up, is because 2 frame links in Cvs2 actually took SOME timing...(as good execution always does), however in Akuma's c.lp, c.lp...this takes NO timing what so ever.

I went into more investigation and looked at my own character and his links, Ryu. Ryu's combo c.mp, c.hk is a "0 frame" link, meaning that once again it shouldn't be possible. Ryu can also do c.lp, c.hp (a 1 frame link) with MUCH ease...I can confidently say that I hit it at least 90% of the time. At the same time, I have tons of trouble with Akuma's c.lp, c.hp link (a -1 link)...I remember actually doing it about 1 in every 8 chances.

Until recently I didn't think anything of it, just that the "Master guide" had wrong info regarding it's frame data (which may or may not be the case, it's trivial, the shit still happens). But I started realizing that other players were dumb founded by it as well. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5769619&postcount=190 Here Viscant believes it to be a glitchy event, however I don't think it's a glitch at all. I think that this is merely SF4's combo system. So Why does this happen? Naturally I have no idea WHY the system works like this, but let it be known, this IS possible, and I have seen it and experienced it on several accounts.

My opinion is this...look at these crazy links like this: sf4 2 frame link = cvs2 4 frame link. By thinking this, sf4 1 frame link = cvs2 3 frame link, etc. At the same time , a -2, -1 link is possibly on heights with a 1 frame link. Hope this sheds light on things.

EDIT:  Viscant did bring to my attention that the c.mp was a counter hit, meaning +3 frame advantage to the hit...so really it would the c.mp would become +8 on hit, therefore c.mp (counter hit), s.hk would be a 1 frame link. 

I still stick to this theory though:  Cvs2 4 frame link = SF4 2 frame link.  Cvs2 3 frame link = SF4 1 frame link.  Cvs2 2 frame link = SF4 0 frame link.  Cvs2 1 frame link = SF4 -1 frame link

- Mickey

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

look again, the crouching medium registers as a counter hit. Counters deal 25% more damage and cause more hit stun. I did this in training and going into the roundhouse after a counter hit crouching medium is fairly easy